How should I deal with false accusations from a mentally fit, mean mom?

Help kind people 😊

Help mean people if you want/must, but protect yourself.

Classic drama triangle.
Mom playing one child against the other. Chooses one to be Bad (aka the scapegoat) & one to be Good (aka the golden child).

"I help my elderly mom".

How can you continue to help but better protect yourself from her 'games'? Is that what you want?

"I don’t live with her".
"I have minimum contact with her."

Or are you wanting to reduce the level of contact?

Sounhappy;

You are ALLOWING your mother to be mean with no consequence. You're enabling her to be mean.

Explain (if you feel like) to mom and her sis that you expect respect and truth from them both or no more help. Perhaps aunt can retrain mom's tongue. Aunt has everything to gain.

No she is not mentally healthy. There is something missing in her brain where she has no empathy for her own daughter. Its a personalty flaw and in my opinion its a mental thing. You need to set borders. You say they have too many funds for Medicaid, then let them hire someone to do for them.

Your Aunt, pick up for breakfast, lunch or dinner. Take her to a movie or shopping. You can help her without entering the house.

She may have been tested for dementia but there is not really a test for mental illness. Has she been evaluated by a psychiatrist for mental illness? Saying that she is mentally fit is not an accurate statement. her behavior is not mentally normal.

Evaluating for mental illness is not done by a PCP. Her doctor could give a referral for a psychiatrist.

We have a really smart poster here named Beatty. She says "there will be no plan as long as YOU are the plan."

Step back. Be unavailable. Say, "I can't possibly do that."

Let mom and Aunt (who don't have dementia and who are so terribly competent) figure out how to get help.

They might ask brother. They might hire folks. They might ask NICELY if you would help set up care.

What I would NOT do is lift a finger for your "mother" as long as she abuses or bad-mouths you.

The minute that starts say, "Oops, gotta go".

And leave.

Every time.

Your mother may not have dementia, but she could very well have unspoken or unexpressed strange mental thoughts. Lying to make a daughter look bad is not normal behavior for a mother towards her daughter.

Sounhappy, your mother has been mean like this your whole life??

As JoAnn notes, she needs you now. Not like when you were a child. If you are still looking for "mommy love", it's time to understand that you're not going to get it from her.

In your shoes, I would consider finding a therapist to work on this issue. One who can help you accept that there is something fundamentally mentally wrong with her ability to love her daughter.

Consider explaining your Aunt (is it possible that she is actually your mom?) what poor planning it is to have joint accounts.

Sorry, did not read every comment.

First, you Mom and your Aunt should not share the same checking account. Why? Because of Medicaid if ever needed. Their SS should be going to separate accounts.

Now Mom. Look at it this way...Mom needs you more than you need her. So, thats what you need to tell her. That you no longer will put up with her lies. That you do not have to do for her. There is no law that says you have to care for her. So, if she wants help, she needs to STOP. You may want to read up on the "grey rock" method. You teach yourself to block her out. Do only what you need to. Ignore her like she is not there. Be nice to your Aunt but ignore Mom. If she excuses you of stealing again or mismanaging her money, tell her to call APS and have you investigated for Elder Fraud. Because she knows that you can prove its a lie because you have done it before with ur brother. But if she chooses to go that way, it won't matter if u win or lose because that will be the last time she sees you. Tell her Golden boy can take over her care. You need to call her bluff and stand by it. Yes, Aunt may be the fallout but you can work around that.

Since Mom has been treating you like this all ur life, it may not be Dementia but it is a Mental thing. Your Mom is missing something that makes her think its OK to treat a daughter like this. She has a personality disorder. If your looking for approval stop.

I don't know your entire situation but if I were in your shoes I would get away from her. Let your brother take care of her if she needs taking care of.

She is verbally abusing you and the only way to stop it is by getting away from her.

It's that simple. Start liking yourself for who you are so you can be at peace with yourself.

Again, I don't know the entire situation here.

Best to you,
Jenna

Paranoia and accusing LOs of stealiing is a very common early dementia behavior. So, unless she has literally been doing this to you for all the years you've know her, you need to consider she is beginning to show signs of dementia, or a UTI or other medical problem that can cause changes in mental function.

Who has told you she is "metally fit"? If she's telling you she went to the doctor and this was the outcome, then that is bunk unless you were present in the appointment with her. You can continue to interact with her as if she's "mean" but by what you've described she has somethiinig else going on. You and your brother should learn about dementia so that you can figure out solutions and boundaries. Most importantly, someone needs to accompany her to a doctor's appointment and stay in the room as they administer the cognitive and memory tests. Then you'll know for sure whether she is in active decline or if something else is going on. You won't know where to draw boundaries unless you are operating from facts.

https://www.agingcare.com/topics/123/paranoia

Also, I learned a lot from Teepa Snow videos on YouTube. She's an expert on dementia and caregiving those who have it.

Sohappy, If it’s that you flat cannot approach either your mom or Auntie to change things that are causing you pain, stress, etc. AND you will not disengage THEN for your own sanity you need to do things that will make the future easier. Margaret’s idea of making the visits all about Auntie is beyond a good idea, make that your mantra 🕉!

And if you can’t have them understand that commingled finances can be problematic, then please please pls you start to keep an Excell on their income and outflow each month. Cause if $ should run out & Medicaid needed, you can use this to establish over time a way to segregate $ for any required spend down. I know you said “no Medicaid in the future”, but unless they are both very very well off, if they live long enough they more than likely will outlive their $. NH can easily be 10-15K a month per person private pay. Avg stay is 2.5 years, $ 375K average private pay for each for 2.5 yrs. In home care isn’t necessarily cheaper either. Plus costs of maintaining a home.

Your mom as a double amputee may need an extra aide if she goes into a facility or extra in home caregiving hours. (If amputation is due to her diabetes, her care plan can go real bad real fast, my paternal grannie was this very situation, it got beyond awful). If mom is actually 40% of household income & assets and she needs to pay for care & uses up beyond her 40% that is beyond so unfair to your Aunt. As POA you have a required fiduciary duty to each of them INDIVIDUALLY. Commingled $ poses issues for duty. It may have never been a problem to this point, but 1 event, like dealing with the aftercare on a fall & hip break or a nosy neighbor who contacts APS, will bring to lite commingled income & assets are happening. Social Security has issues with commingled accounts and can require that the retiree mo SS$ Income become under representative payee status….. it’s an extra layer of compliance to deal with that can be avoided by establishing separate financials. Imo SSA can be a nitemare as they do not recognize POA and will want for the elder to do things on their own in person or by phone.

Are there wills done for each? Is it clear who heirs are & who Executor is to be? If not, they need to get that done. Should Auntie die intestate, you could have cousins emerged who can have standing for any division of her after death assets… not just you and your brother as niece and nephew but other cousins. This gets real on the weeds as to your States probate laws and imho not ever a DIY and you are best off as a POA having an attorney do a fresh review whatever legal each of them has done. Also have the atty Review just how the house is titled and recorded at the courthouse, especially if it’s not done however a TOD transfer on death (to the surviving sister) title needs to be done for your State. They are not a married couple so the easier “pour over will” that wife/husband can do may not there for siblings for your States laws. Having things done now just makes it easier & less stressful for you later on. Good luck.

I would walk away NOW, to avoid more serious allegations. I had similar and ended up in one year of court, all for nothing, the magistrate withdrew all the charges.

your mother is doing this because she is no longer in control of her life, her health or any other aspects of her life. She's favoring your brother because she views him as a replacement for your father. All of this is incredible passive aggressive and does little in terms of communication or her long term care. My mother does a form of this. I could have written this post. Instead of trying to reason with her ( it doesn't work) I would suggest you give her a taste of her own medicine and see how she likes her harsh words given back to her.

She *might* be doing this so that she can keep you afraid of her.

Try. "yes mother that's right I'm trying to rob you blind, yes I'm forging all your signatures and taking all the money out of your account right under your nose. Here is the bank's phone number please call them and confirm that I'm doing this to yourself and Your Brother's name. I want you to do it right now so that you can see what I'm doing"

Sometime you have to fight passive aggressive with passive aggressive.

It seems that you will end up becoming more embroiled in your mother's life, and not less (I've just read through the latest posts and your replies). I think you will never just walk away.

So what happens if your mother refuses to allow caregivers in? I hope that SHE is paying for them, and not YOU. Will you move in and become their 24/7/365 caregiving slave?

Your brother lives FIVE MINUTES away and doesn't help AT ALL?! Why are YOU doing the errands, when you are two minutes away? If I were you, I would be charging for all of this help, and at the going rate.

I wish you could disentangle yourself from the outdated cultural expectations that say a daughter's worth is less than a son's. But I expect that you will not be able to do that.

So many people come on this forum, get great advice, but then never take it. They only want tea and sympathy. Once in a while someone actually makes the necessary changes, but that is not common. I suspect that you are one of the ones who will never make the necessary changes. I wish it were otherwise.

I also have thought maybe my Mom is evil. I think some parents really are evil: something beyond nasty. Some parents target one child: scapegoat. It can get to the point of going beyond nasty. It’s evil.

Maybe my mom’s evil, and it never occurred to me before.

Some ideas:
1) Make your visits be to your aunt. You will see M in passing, but it could be easier if you focus on your aunt.
2) Were you wrong in thinking that your brother only calls M once a year? It might be worth talking to him about what he thinks is going on now, and about the future – not to complain about what he has chosen not to do, or about the unfairness of the ‘golden boy’ stuff.
3) Think through the finances, like Igloo says. Is this bank account the only major asset? If so, and M dies first, aunt will automatically ‘own’ the bank account and M’s ‘equal’ will won’t have any effect.
4) If the house is an asset, whose name is it in? If it’s joint with M and aunt, the same rules apply – the survivor owns it. If it’s aunt’s house, you need to think about aunt’s will and who inherits from her. If it’s M’s house, you and brother may need to consider it as part of the future issues.
5) What are the plans for future care for each of them? Igloo’s comments on Medicaid are important, but there’s more as well to think about.
6) Is the paperwork in place for both of them. POAs, end of life wishes, HIPPA forms, etc. If both are legally competent now, this is the time to check, not when it’s too late.
7) Another ‘mean’ limit you may not be expecting from M is when she calls the police or APS on you, just to create lots of lovely fuss. What will you do then?


If this is a wake up call to sort all these things out, you can smile and thank M for it! Best wishes, Margaret

So mom & Auntie have a joint bank account?
Unless you want to deal with even more of a future train wreck, that account(s) needs to be changed so that each of the Sisters have their own unique bank accounts. No more commingling of financials. If your mom needs to pay her share of utilities or pay rent to her Sister, mom does this and those checks get deposited into you Aunties bank account. If you want to stay a part of this drama, then they allow you to be a signatory on both accounts and they both do the accounts as POD (pay on death) to you. Having it be POD will come in handy to deal with after death immediate costs, like funeral floral expenses (not covered in preneed policies).

who are their POAs?
Your Aunt is nice & it’s her home that your mom lives in right?
So does Auntie have her own kids? and are they involved in her life? so that when the inevitable happens and she needs a higher level of care than can ever be done in her home, her kids will be there to deal with all this? Or will this be on you?

Whatever the case, having a joint account means that the $ in it can be considered to be all the assets of 1 of them should 1 of them ever need to file for an “at need” program like care in a NH (LTC Medicaid program).

They are both housebound, frail and elderly, right? Your mom is double amputee as well, right? Realistically they are 1 good fall from breaking a hip, going to the ER, being hospitalized and then discharged to rehab in a SNF/NH and then determined to be unable to go back to the home as unable to do the minimal ADL (activities of daily living) needed to return to the old home. Unless they each have significant $ (each has 200K+), the one in rehab/NH will end up filing for LTC Medicaid. Medicaid will look at the $ in their joint accounts as being available entirely to the one now “at need” in a NH. In order to be eligible for LTC Medicaid, it’s a max of $ 2,000 allowed to stay in the old bank accounts. Someone- Auntie or Mom - will get screwed big time financially.

Say account has $98,765 in it. & say its your mom who has a bad accident and who now needs to be in a SNF. That 98k is just as much all her $ as it is your Aunts. Before mom could ever be eligible for LTC Medicaid, Medicaid is going to fully expect mom to do a spend down of $96,765 as LTC Medicaid has a maximum of $2,000 in nonexempt assets allowed. By the accounts being commingled, the $ can be considered to be all be available to 1 of them without a division. The commingling & Co ownership needs to stop.
So you went to the bank recently right? Gather together what you can on past 3 months of their banking and go and sit with a bank officer to discuss how to segregate the accounts and what a paperwork needed and what path could be the simplest to take. Whomever is their POA really should be doing this, but if that’s not you but you have been doing their banking with no problems now for years, it will be ok. Your not trying to take $ for yourself but segregating their income and assets so it better reflects the correct % of ownership. It may be est that that the old account stays the same in Aunts name (I bet she’s the one whose $ it mainly is, am I rite?) but your mom opens a new one that gets her SS income and any other retirements she gets.

At some point something is going to happen and unless they each has a ton of $, LTC Medicaid will get filed for. Please please do what you can now to make the 5 yr financial lookback make sense for what their own assets actually are without commingling.

WHY do you help someone that abuses you?
Verbal abuse, mental abuse is abuse.
STOP helping her.
If she is mentally healthy (and I wonder about that. She may not have dementia but I do not think she is mentally healthy)
Stop having contact with her.
If you continue the way you currently are nothing will change and her behavior will continue as it is and you will be stuck on this treadmill.

I beg to differ about the no dementia diagnosis. I was an in-home caregiver to mostly elderly for almost 25 years. When the accusations of being stolen from because the senior misplaced something or didn't have it to being with is dementia. Your mother pulls it together for brief periods of time like when she talks to your brother or when she's at the doctor. That's called "showtiming".
People with dementia can seem perfectly fine in front of certain people for short periods of time. The can often get one over on their doctors and health care providers and everyone thinks they're fine. Not the hired homecare aide or family caregiver who has to spend hours a day with them. They never get one over then.
I don't doubt your mother is a nasty piece of work. Dementia will only make that worse.
Don't play her games though. You're making a good choice bringing in hired caregivers. Next, have your brother take over POA so then you can walk away.
You need to tell mother to go pound sand and get on with your life. Even when a person has dementia they often need to be put in their place because they cannot be allowed to be control of any situation.
Also, your mother's meaness is not to blame for your obesity. You are an adult. You decide what you're going to eat and how much.
You take responsibility for your weight. I let myself get up to almost 250 pounds at one time. When I got divorced I moved back in with my piece of work mother and my life was hell on earth. I blamed her for my weight getting out of control and that I smoked over a pack a day too. Then I got some accountability. My mother wasn't shoving the food down my throat or forcing the cigarettes into my mouth. I was doing both. So, I got some accountability, lost almost a hundred pounds and stopped smoking.
Take back your life. No one is going to do it for you. Walk away from caregiving. If yoru mother cannot keep her abusive behavior in check, go no contact. If it's because she has dementia, look into facility placement. Good luck.

"No mental issues"?

She is housebound (why) and tells lies about the one person who helps her? That's a "mental issue" right there.

Tell Mommie Dearest that you find her lies to be noxious and disappointing in one dependent upon your kindness.

Maybe she's trying to help you grow a spine? I really mean that! Why would you subject yourself to this?

If she's mentally 100%, then sit her down, tell her calmly that you have chosen to stop helping her because of her behavior. If you want to make life a little easier for her, write out all her important information, like what date the bills are due, what her prescriptions are, what her doctor's phone number is, and anything else you think she should know to live independently.

Wish her well, then leave. Go no-contact on her and see what happens. You will have equipped her to handle her affairs, and as she has not been diagnosed with any issues, she should be able to do it.

(I'll add that clearly she's not competent, so you might take one last stab at getting her evaluated. Send the doctor an email in advance of her examination telling them what kind of behaviors she's exhibiting and give examples. You'd be surprised at how those tests can change when they already have a heads-up to problems.)

I am going through similar situation. It’s age related; she seems to have wild mood swings in which she lashes out, threatens and berates me. My sister lives with her and is also complaining of her being toxic. I’ve been told by a social worker and geriatrician this is frontal lobe related and it is indeed mental decline. Is she worse at night vs day? Mine has “sundowning” so she will pick a fight and be mean when it’s the end of the day and she’s tired. The best advice I can give you is set up boundaries and speak with a geriatrician. Protect yourself; my blood pressure was going sky high every time I spoke with my mom. I try and remind myself it’s their fear and frustration that makes them act this way. But you don’t have to accept it and you can get help. Good luck, and I promise you’re not alone. You’re a good daughter no matter what she says because you care.

You're making some pretty bold statements here by saying, "No memory trouble. Not a single strange mental thought." How do YOU know WHAT kinds of thoughts the woman has? Please!

That said, I don't know when your mother was last tested for cognitive impairment, or if she was given the PROPER tests FOR cognitive impairment, but false accusations of "stealing her money and denying her access to her own money" is a CLASSIC sign of dementia and/or someone who is having mental health issues. Let me ask you a question: who in her right mind would say such a thing to her son if she didn't believe it to be true? Knowing you could pull statements to prove her wrong, right on the spot? A person with cognitive deficits would do such a thing, that's who.

So you can believe that your mother definitely doesn't have dementia, no memory trouble, and not a single strange mental thought going through her head. I believe otherwise or she wouldn't be accusing you of something SO easily provable. People in good mental health and w/o cognitive impairment don't do such things. They find OTHER ways to be mean where they don't wind up being shown up as horse's arses in short order. Mean people's ego's don't like such things.

In any event, why are you so insistent on helping for and caring for a mother who thinks the sun rises & sets on her son and thinks you're a thief? I would tell her, mother, the next time you treat me like crap, I'm OUT of here and not coming back until you issue me a formal apology and MEAN it. And then I'll look at my schedule to see IF I have time to squeeze you in.

Mean people, dementia or no dementia, need to be told to sit down and shut up or else they continue steam rolling over you like dirt under their shoes. But their Golden Boys can do no wrong, even when they do NOTHING for their mothers at all. That's the way it goes, unfortunately. So it's up to YOU how much time you choose to spend with the woman. Look into hiring helpers for her, on HER dime, of course, to do for her what you've been doing for free. She may then decide to appreciate all you DO do for her.

Good luck.

She’s been mean to me all my life.

Today was just yet another limit I didn’t think she would reach. First, falsely accusing me to another family member. Second, since they talk so rarely (my brother and her), I rarely witness how they talk to each other. Today, I witnessed that she doesn’t in any way criticize him for not helping, and for consequently all the work being unfairly dropped in my lap. Third, I witnessed that after all I do to help her, the only thing she said about me to my brother was nothing positive, but a very bad lie about me.

I didn’t realize we were being treated - that - differently. (my brother and I)

If she has no mental issues, then simply say. If you ever do that again to me, I will without hesitation call out your behavior to the person to whom you have addressed the issue and cut all ties with you. But it does, in fact, appear that she has some issues.

"I have one brother whom my mom adores. He does nothing to help. I help my elderly mom. I don’t live with her."

How do you help her?

Your brother calls once a year? How far away does he live?

What do you plan to do when your mother needs more help? I hope you do NOT intend to become her caregiver.

If your mother favors your brother so much and she has assets, are you sure she doesn't have him listed as her sole beneficiary? How would you feel about that?

(If it were me, I'd cut off all contact, and tell her that she can call Brother Dearest for anything she needs.)

This kind of behavior is very common with people with dementia. Even though they say she is mentally fit, maybe not. If she is not having mental issues or dementia, then I would 100% blow her off.