Anyone who works and lives on their own has to pay rent, food and all house bills (water, power, communications, heat...). That's a big part of any salary. Even a doctor who's well paid (supposedly) has to give part of his salary for his house, food and bills. Let's say someone earns 1300 a month, then pays rent (...700) then food (150) and bills (another 150). In the end of the month has 300 left.
I really don't understand how a live-in caregiver will ask for the same 1300 plus ALL expenses paid. It's 1300 left in the end of the month...It's a lot of money.
Don't get me wrong, I know it's a hard job, but it's still way too much money if the person - contrary to the rest of the population - doesn't have to pay for house, food, power, heat, internet, tv, water...
Why aren't these expenses considered in what they ask?
To stick to the question: your caregiver receives what in the recruitment industry is called a package of "comps and bens" - compensations and benefits.
Compensations would include salary and bonuses, also things like share options in the loftier jobs.
Benefits would include things like, yes, room, board, use of a car, travel and subsistence allowances, health cover, gym membership, what have you.
And while we're at it, if you're in the EU then there will also be regulatory expenses - taxes, national insurance, possibly pension and sick pay provision too. And may I (illegally, strictly speaking, but) strongly recommend that you do not hire anyone young enough to get pregnant. Your country may not yet have statutory maternity pay and may still exempt private households from such employment regulations, but the times they are a-changin'.
So to calculate the value of the room, board, utilities and services your live-in caregiver will receive, average out the expense attached to an individual living in that particular household. Four people in the house, the bills came to €xxxxx over the last twelve months, divide by four, divide again by twelve for the monthly figure. Remember that these are approximations, not invoices. Remember too that if there were only three people in the house over the last twelve months, a fourth person will not increase all of the household expenses. Taxes, internet, standing charges and so on all remain the same. It might be fairer, when you are deciding on the room-and-board value, to include only those costs which are variable.
Then there is salary. I'm not sure that the minimum wage, below which the amount paid is literally criminal, is really the best benchmark to start from if you wish to attract candidates who like to look on themselves as professionals. You might consult instead a range of roughly parallel salary scales: for nursing personnel, health care assistants, hotel and catering staff, for example. Then consider what qualities, skills, aptitudes and experience you would like this person to have; how long you expect her (probably) to stay around; and what sort of employers you might be competing with.
The sort of individuals you have had trouble with are, sadly, the kind who are applying for this job because they can't get any other and they are desperate. What you want is someone who has discovered in herself a liking for older people, an aptitude for adapting to their "little ways," and who does the job because she's good at it. She may, for example, be a nurse who is fed to the back teeth with the health care system but wants to complete saving for her retirement. In that case, the salary you're paying on top of her board and lodging is her pension, it's not pin money. This person will ideally be a safe driver with a clean licence. A practical, coping type with a wide range of domestic and administrative skills. She will have initiative. She will be good at finding common ground and making light conversation. She is happy to unload the washing machine if you've forgotten to do it and you're running late. She is someone you can rely on, who you are happy to have in your home. So. What's that worth to you?
Once you've added up, you can present the figure either as a package -
c. €xx,000 inclusive of accommodation and benefits
or as a salary + benefits list -
€xx,000 basic + accommodation + benefits
The first is legitimate but a little bit weaselly - it's the sort of thing that heavily sales-oriented organisations get up to with their "on target earnings" figures. The second is clearer and therefore fairer.
But this is what you don't do, or not unless the person genuinely has any option about whether or not to live in anyway: offer a salary and then deduct rent and living expenses. What, are you going to take breakages out of her wages, too? Put a stop watch by the phone? Install a separate water meter? It just smacks of all the wrong attitudes to someone you're supposed to be welcoming to your home.
Really?
"Where I live 1300 is 2xMW"
"gladhimhere: A Euro is $1.18 dollars. What third world countries use Euros?"
"carenightmare: Mine. MW here is in 16th place in europe" (as a reference)
CTTN5: "Why write that it's your MIL, when it's merely your bf's mother? You live in a poor European country? Then what we do here in the U.S. has no bearing on you, so please stop arguing with us. Argue with your bf. You know what you have to do...MOVE OUT."
"carenightmare: If I lived in Germany would it make a difference? No."
"meallen: Bulgaria? Only have stats for 2016"
"Meallen: Oh, I couldn't find your country on your profile. Where would I look, please."
"carenightmare: That's probably because we're not asked to say where we come from. I couldn't find yours either."
"carenightmare: No, it's not bulgaria and that is SOOOOOOOOOOO irrelevant "
"Meallen: I've given you data on Bulgaria, which as far as I can tell, is your country (it's not my fault you won't confirm or deny that)"
"carenightmare: I'm not from Bulgaria. I thought it would be super easy to know the country and it's not!! I SAID 16th!!!! ALL YOU NEED IS TO COUNT TO 16!!! - I DON'T CARE!!!! THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!! AT ALLLLL!!"
"meallen: And yes, where you live is relevant"
"meallen: Ah, Slovakia? The data is handled differently by different sources. I am sorry about that."
"carenightmare: Ok, nice job Meallen, so stop trying now. It's irrelevant."
Where and when did IIIII made a big deal about my country and where I live? Where?
Your "opinions" were all respected as long as you answered my question, not when you threw a huge amount of judgmental assumptions and name calling.
You guys don't read before you answer, and jump to your wrong conclusions all sprinkled with name calling and moral judgment. That's the problem. Too judgmental.
I never said I didn't pay a salary above MW, and yet, everyone picked on Dorianne's comment and went on from there. And it kept going to "I implied this", "That's why she does that"...
You got all offended when I ended up comparing US caregivers to US nannies, since they have the same responsibilities, schedule and expected availability - which were your points (when you answered my question) - because then your arguments went down the drain: "cute little babies" vs "cranky smelly old people". Really?
Who devalues other people's jobs?! Me? Who trashes old people? Me? Who trashes members in this community when they don't agree with you? Me?
Jesus! I had to explain my job - you asked me! -, my relationship to these people - you judged! -, where I am from - You asked! -, how my country is - You kept searching! -, and you were all offended by my boyfriend and bashed him in the previous thread, when that was not the point, then got offended because I call my boyfriend's mother "mother in law", which a) it's easier and b) it's what she is to me, we're family (a child can't call the woman who dates her father a "mother" just because this community gets all offended because she's not the biological mother?), then got all offended because I'm not from USA, and showed your xenophobia, now I'm a troll?
This is a self pity community, that's what it is. Not a place to question.
You like to come here, cry, everyone calls you a hero and tell you're a very good person so you can feel good about yourselves. And we can see how good and understanding you all are, from xenophobia to name calling for every reason, to getting all offended because I take care of my family regardless of us being bounded by blood "It's your BF's problem!!! Run!!". No! We're family, we're humans, and this is everyone's problem.
The whole issue with where does she live is just yet another way for her to perpetuate non-stop argument. Each and every post has served that goal... argue and throw flames
That is..a person who has only the interest to start arguments by throwing flames on the Internet
This person has no interest in any reasonable discussion...just throw flames
Stop feeding trolls
"Helpless" results:
https://www.agingcare.com/caregiver-forum/search?term=helpless
"stuck"
https://www.agingcare.com/caregiver-forum/search?term=stuck
I'm not from Bulgaria. I thought it would be super easy to know the country and it's not!! I SAID 16th!!!! ALL YOU NEED IS TO COUNT TO 16!!! - I DON'T CARE!!!! THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!! AT ALLLLL!!
Yes, I did ask if housing shouldn't be counted as part of the salary. LIKE NANNIES in US DO
MW is proportional to the cost of living in any country.
My fuzzy logic was this
I ww citizen make (MW)_______ In the end of the month I have to PAY rent and house bills, so (MW)________ - __________(house + bills) = MW-2/3MW. Money left = (MW)_______:3
I a caregiver make 2x (MW) __________ in the end of the month I don't have to pay rent and house bills, so 2x (MW)________ - 0 (house+bills) = 2xMW______, so Money left = 2x (MW)_______
Let's fill the gaps. MW would be 2000. AS EXAMPLE
I ww citizen make (MW) 2000 In the end of the month I have to PAY rent and house bills, so (MW) 2000 - 1333 (house + bills) = MW-2/3MW. Money left = (MW) 2000 :3 = 666
I a caregiver make 2x (MW) 4000 in the end of the month I DON'T have to pay rent and house bills, so 2x (MW) 4000 - 0 (house+bills) = 2xMW 4000, so Money left = 2x (MW) 4000
Look, we'd love it if there was government money to take care of all elders in decent, if not luxuries surroundings, but that is not the case, at least in the US and your country (I am still assuming Bulgaria.) You started this thread by saying that you thought what you want to pay was fair. Some of us (I can't speak for everyone on this site don't agree, using your rather fuzzy logic which suggests that we can what is true in one country to all counties. Among other things you don't address is the fact that how well one can live on a country's MW (or 2xMW) depends mostly on that cost of living in that country. I've given you data on Bulgaria, which as far as I can tell, is your country (it's not my fault you won't confirm or deny that) that shows a comparison to the USA, and you don't seem to take that in. You must have realized very early on we had no idea what country you were in, yet continued to write as if your situation was based in the USA. And you have been a bit, shall we say, fluid, about your situation. That's okay--we often summarize or leave out details, or don't mention how our situation has changed over time. However, it seems odd that you are put out when people take you at your word. I have no idea if your 2xMW + board idea is ethical or not in Bulgaria or where ever you are. It certainly is neither legal (as several posters have mention) nor ethical (in my opinion) in the USA.
Let's talk about my country, my boyfriend, my boyfriend's mother and how INSANE it is to call her my MIL!, and about how cheap I am. Forget my question. Let's go get some tea and discuss my personal life instead of my question about the fairness of the market you so much love and that is the reason why we're all stuck helplessly with our elderly at home and joined a www community for CAREGIVERS.
Gosh...
I gave universal data: MW that's proportional in every country...I said multiply MW by 2.
Fill in the gaps. MW in bulgaria x 2, MW in US x 2, MW in Italy x2 MW in Zimbabwe x 2...
it's a proportional rate.
Actually, it's interesting when joining my 2 threads together I can see how this community works. My only post was about taking care of my....MIL (yes, that's what she is to me and it's easier this way), and it became a thread for everyone bashing my BF. I tried to answer the many questions not about my MIL, but about my boyfriend, who was not the point of the thread. And still the community kept more focused on my BF
Now I ask if it's fair for a Live in CG to ask 2xMW (valid in any country) because (and it's US data) live-in nannies with the same expected working hours and availability earn LESS. And this ended 1) again in my BF 2) a lot of misreading and wrong judgement from there 3) not US? poor country? MOVE OUT
SAD
Live in nannies don't make the same money not because they take care of cute babies, but because this is a new business where everyone - oh, I'm sorry, the market - is taking advantage of elderly retirement money. And this is a www issue. We should all question that, not just blindly accept things.
Yes, we assume that everyone here is from the USA. You may have noticed that our fellow Americans, the Canadians, identify themselves as such.
Give the differences in the economic situation in Bulgaria vs. the USA, it was rather cheap of you (pardon the expression) to come blasting in here without letting us know all the facts. I might also mention that you, first, described your home as a third world country.
yeah, nice attitude. "live in a poor country? go back home!" My country is just as poor as many other in europe. If I lived in Germany would it make a difference? No.
I thought this was a world wide internet forum for caregivers. No one asked for my nationality.
I see. Caregiving is not a US matter, it's a universal matter. I honestly thought this community was for ALL of us to share ideas.
In that case, and seeing your attitude toward "poor countries" - which is not the case, but apparently you don't know much about Europe - I too have nothing more to say to you.
gladhimhere did basic research: went to my profile. It's not a secret. It's there. If I feel sorry for you all the time, I'm welcomed, if I question "MOVE OUT"
Why write that it's your MIL, when it's merely your bf's mother? You live in a poor European country? Then what we do here in the U.S. has no bearing on you, so please stop arguing with us. Argue with your bf.
You know what you have to do...MOVE OUT.
So I'm not saying I'm paying 1300 USD, I'm paying euros in my country. It's not the same rate. And I ALREADY Said that many many many times in this thread.
About the BF, I know. I explained that too later on that thread.
About the amount: as I said on this thread, this is a basic need, just like food, and the "market" shouldn't just decide based on demand. If so, anyone coud ask for 1 million and say "i won't move a finger" but the market says 1 million.
I asked if MW(a bit more)+Housing (which is a huge slice of anyone's salary) isn't good enough
"I'm taking care of my boyfriend's mother and after only a month and a half, we're on the verge (if we didn't already) of breaking up. I've been irritated, anxious, stressed and sick of being stuck with her. I'm alone all day, the only two people I see and talk to is she, who only talks about how she's not feeling well or simply complains about something, or about stuff that is completely not how I see the world; and then the live-in caregiver who we hired but doesn't do much. So lately I've been very angry at these opportunists, manipulators and my bf's assumption that I'm just making a better use of my time...like a hobby. I've asked and begged him to do something about it, and became what I never wanted to be: a nagger! Now he's tired of hearing me, and I'm tired of his selfishness. . He says he can't take it anymore (!) I said I can't take it anymore and if it's too much for him, then we should take a break and he said great. I'm not sure if I mean it or not, but I couldn't control myself anymore. I'm stressed. If I can't talk about this without crying, it means this situation is causing me a lot of stress and I'm feeling powerless to solve it"
Get out, run, run as fast as you can! BF's family is responsible for this situation and you are getting sucked in. What would you consider appropriate payment for care that you are providing???
Nightmare, call an agency and ask what 24/7 care would cost each month. My area? In excess of $12,000.00 a month. Since worker is required to be there it is not considered part of salary. Compare the 12K to your 1.3 K, less benefits of a heated work place with water and electricity. Unbelievable that you would think this at all fair. Not anywhere in the U.S. or Canada. Maybe Mexico, third world countries. If that is part of consideration you should supply that information. That would be different. You came on a website that is geared towards caregiving in the U.S. and Canada. If that is not the case then you have come to the wrong place for support to justify your slave labor.