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It would be sensible to check the last answer. Most contracts are enforceable without being in writing (exceptions for things like sale of land). It’s just much much easier to prove that the agreement existed if it’s documented. What sister would need to show is almost certainly that the agreement included payment. If sister agreed and did the care, but mother never agreed to pay for it, there is nothing to enforce. Legally (in most places) the agreement/ contract would also need other elements, like certainty (how long, what conditions) and the consideration (rate of pay, even if pegged to some identifiable ‘average’).
The usual answer to this question is ‘no’. If there's no documentation, it's usually an indicator that it wasn't intended as a binding agreement - unless there are formal witnesses or it's a special situation like an auction bid. But try for compensation, by all means. Few professional executors would consider paying up, a family member might. Just don’t spend too much money on lawyers.
Arizona is unique in the sense that a handshake agreement is enforceable if there is proof that one party acted on the agreement.
That your sister stayed and became caregiver could get her compensation under that condition.
Mom just abusing her daughter might not fly.
Did mom take sisters money? Did sister see a professional and share what was going on? A doctor would chart what your sister said. Is the information you have solely from your sister?
Do you have anything in writing? I ask because mom could twist the narrative to make it appear that she was being taken advantage of by her daughter.
Sister can always submit a bill to mom and make mom prove it isn't true or she can submit it to her estate upon mom's death and hope she gets made whole that way.
There are never any guarantees about how something like this will shake out.
”I am assisting my developmentally sister (69 yrs) who was our mother's involuntary family caregiver for more than 15 years. As time went on, it became apparent that our mother was abusing my sister. About six months ago, I helped my sister move out of our mother's home and to a town closer to me. I'm trying to help my sister - including trying to see if there is any way she can obtain back wages for all the caregiving she did for nothing. She is too intellectually vulnerable herself to have voluntarily agreed to sacrifice her own life and financial security to care for our mother. This was not a "gift" of family caregiving by my sister, but an appropriation of my sister's life, and time, and ability to earn outside money. Our mother abused my sister in many ways - including, but not limited to psychological and financial abuse - while my sister was living with her. There was never any agreement that my sister should be our mother's caregiver. Any suggestions as to how I could help my sister?”
No, I don't think she can get compensation now. There has to be an agreement of payment.
Just curious and u don't have to answer but why did it take so long to get sister out of the house? At age 18 ur sister was considered emancipated by law. Your Mom had to get guardianship to take care of sisters affairs.
At this point you can get resources for your sister. Does she get SS? She should be able to as a disabled child. She gets it from her parents earnings. There's also SSI, Supplimental income. She can get Medicaid if she doesn't have it. Maybe a group home. There is also Adult daycare where she can get some socialization.
Fifteen years is probably too long for an ordinary employment law case.
If the mother has deep pockets you might be able to get a lawyer interested. Anyone can sue. I do seem to recall a case where an illegal alien was forced to work in some kind of sweatshop, threatened, physically abused, and restrained from leaving; they were pursuing some kind of involuntary servitude claim that covered a number of years.
The issue will be getting around the assumption that “I let my disabled child live with me and she contributed to running the household to what extent she could.” So you’d be looking for things inconsistent with that. She was contributing a $2,000 disability check in an area where a room rents for $400. She was working ten hours a day producing crafts sold on Etsy. She was restrained from leaving the property or communicating with others. She was able to be productive and live reasonably independently before and/or after the fifteen years.
If there are no deep pockets, you might be better off setting her up for success from here. Follow through on pursuing any programs that she qualifies for. If there is any eventual inheritance give her a little help from yours and encourage other heirs to do the same.
Probably not useful to the original poster, but if the conditions were extreme enough to result in criminal conviction, payment of back wages may be required as restitution.
Here’s a case involving a daughter-in-law. “Virginia family sent to prison after forcing Pakistan woman into ‘modern-day equivalent of slavery“ https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/virginia-family-sentenced-after-performing-decade-long-modern-day-equivalent-of-slavery-of-family-member
What "wages?". With no set financial attengement, a family member just does what needs to be done, for however long it is needed. A request can be made for some extra financial consideration when an estate is settled, but there is no legal requirement that such a request be met.
svansholm: Perchance if you weren't receiving wages while you were an active family caregiver, chances are slim to none to receive any such $$ after the fact. True story - my mother lived on a poverty wage for her entire life; I was her caregiver and I expected nothing in return except her unconditional love.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
The usual answer to this question is ‘no’. If there's no documentation, it's usually an indicator that it wasn't intended as a binding agreement - unless there are formal witnesses or it's a special situation like an auction bid. But try for compensation, by all means. Few professional executors would consider paying up, a family member might. Just don’t spend too much money on lawyers.
That your sister stayed and became caregiver could get her compensation under that condition.
Mom just abusing her daughter might not fly.
Did mom take sisters money? Did sister see a professional and share what was going on? A doctor would chart what your sister said. Is the information you have solely from your sister?
Do you have anything in writing? I ask because mom could twist the narrative to make it appear that she was being taken advantage of by her daughter.
Sister can always submit a bill to mom and make mom prove it isn't true or she can submit it to her estate upon mom's death and hope she gets made whole that way.
There are never any guarantees about how something like this will shake out.
Is mom in AZ too?
”I am assisting my developmentally sister (69 yrs) who was our mother's involuntary family caregiver for more than 15 years. As time went on, it became apparent that our mother was abusing my sister. About six months ago, I helped my sister move out of our mother's home and to a town closer to me. I'm trying to help my sister - including trying to see if there is any way she can obtain back wages for all the caregiving she did for nothing. She is too intellectually vulnerable herself to have voluntarily agreed to sacrifice her own life and financial security to care for our mother. This was not a "gift" of family caregiving by my sister, but an appropriation of my sister's life, and time, and ability to earn outside money. Our mother abused my sister in many ways - including, but not limited to psychological and financial abuse - while my sister was living with her. There was never any agreement that my sister should be our mother's caregiver. Any suggestions as to how I could help my sister?”
Just curious and u don't have to answer but why did it take so long to get sister out of the house? At age 18 ur sister was considered emancipated by law. Your Mom had to get guardianship to take care of sisters affairs.
At this point you can get resources for your sister. Does she get SS? She should be able to as a disabled child. She gets it from her parents earnings. There's also SSI, Supplimental income. She can get Medicaid if she doesn't have it. Maybe a group home. There is also Adult daycare where she can get some socialization.
If the mother has deep pockets you might be able to get a lawyer interested. Anyone can sue. I do seem to recall a case where an illegal alien was forced to work in some kind of sweatshop, threatened, physically abused, and restrained from leaving; they were pursuing some kind of involuntary servitude claim that covered a number of years.
The issue will be getting around the assumption that “I let my disabled child live with me and she contributed to running the household to what extent she could.” So you’d be looking for things inconsistent with that. She was contributing a $2,000 disability check in an area where a room rents for $400. She was working ten hours a day producing crafts sold on Etsy. She was restrained from leaving the property or communicating with others. She was able to be productive and live reasonably independently before and/or after the fifteen years.
If there are no deep pockets, you might be better off setting her up for success from here. Follow through on pursuing any programs that she qualifies for. If there is any eventual inheritance give her a little help from yours and encourage other heirs to do the same.
Here’s a case involving a daughter-in-law. “Virginia family sent to prison after forcing Pakistan woman into ‘modern-day equivalent of slavery“ https://www.wric.com/news/virginia-news/virginia-family-sentenced-after-performing-decade-long-modern-day-equivalent-of-slavery-of-family-member
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