What to do with a parent who will not let his house be cleaned up?

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What to do with a parent who will not let his house be cleaned up?

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It looks like a bomb has went off. Years worth of mail just scattered all over the floors. I mean every room. Tools, books, the whole house is a mess. He gets angry and will not let anyone help or clean up things believe me we have tried for years. I have considered calling adult protective services just to come look at the home and help move him out of there. He could well afford to go to a nice assisted care facility, did I mention he has a person come in 5 hours a day but will not let her do anything either except run him to stores to buy more things he does not need, I am at wits end as to what to do. Help need suggestions or an agency I can call for help.

Burnout Family Caregiver Refusing Care

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In the recliner, you are absolutely right!!My mother is a hoarder and you are absolutely right. She is a hoarder, gambling addict, and now has started drinking the past couple of years. She is 95 years old. It’s so hard!!

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gdaughter, that’s what I was hoping for with my mom. Ambulance came and took my mother to ER for pneumonia. I was with her most of the time. I stayed with her in the evenings because that’s when she want edit me there and left in the morning to get some sleep. (I work overnight shift) so this arrangement worked for both of us. She was in for 5 days. The doctors and health aids asked her when I wasn’t there can you bathe yourself, cook yourself, manage money, go grocery shopping, go up flights of stairs, feed your self, walk yourself and she said yes to everything. She can do ever herself except bathe herself. She takes call a bus to go shopping. So they let her out of the hospital because she refused any outside help and there was both I could do or say to change their mind. She is competent and has every right to refuse assisted living, a nursing home, or health aids come to her house. I called her doctors office and the nurse told me she use to work in ER and said there is nothing I can do about it. Even if I talked to the er doctors it doesn’t matter. My mother trumps anything I say. Her words are the final words. I am so sorry the nurse told me. It is all so frustrating.

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Isthisrealyreal, thank you for your kind words. It really is frustrating with my mother. My mother eats old rotten food laying around in her refrigerator and said it’s fine. I won’t eat it. I’m just trying to wash her hair. She is so stubborn.

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Thank you big sister 7. Why didn’t I think of that. I will go over tomorrow and throw out everything in that hoarding house of hers. I will have to get 2 or 3 dumpsters and throw everything out while she is standing there. She will say thank you for cleaning up her house. My 95 year old mother will live happily ever after.

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Rovana, I have given up on the hoarding. I don’t live there. I am execution of her will. She has no money left because she gambled her life savings away 30 years ago. Executrix of her will. Damn spell check. I am on to bigger and better things. I am just trying to wash her hair. She screams at me and tells me to get out of her house and if I don’t she will call the police. The last time I washed her hair was in May and the time before that was a year ago. I don’t take her out to restaurants anymore because she won’t bathe or wash her hair. According to her doctors and elder care lawyers there is no law out there saying someone has to bathe or wash there hair!!!!

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This is SO difficult.

I think step one has to be: step back, remember that it is he who is having to live in chaos and squalor and not you, and remember that this junk = his treasured possessions, and it makes him feel just as anxious and insecure when anyone "threatens" to move it as you would if someone started chucking out your things.

So you start from there. The lady who spends five hours a day with him, what does she think? She's the one whom he trusts enough, at least, to let her into the house; so she's the one in the best position to try any new strategies. You can also explore whether she would be prepared to work with you on alternatives such as changing the subject or negotiating delay or checking existing stocks first, rather than just going and buying what he asks her to get. She is not wrong to do this, she is acting on her client's wishes; but without going *against* his wishes (which would be wrong) she might be willing to help him think through what's best.

Accept that this may be a situation where you just have to wait until something forces the issue. Those "somethings" are not likely to be any fun for anyone, but they're not necessarily disastrous. Typical game-changers might include illness, injury, and infestation with vermin leading to fire hazard. Google "Life of Grime, Edmund Trebus" for a true example of a happy ending in spite of everything.

Meanwhile: talk to him. Are you able to spend meaningful amounts of time just sitting with him and talking generally? It may be that you can win his agreement to baby steps, such as boxing up unopened mail so that it is easier for him to see what's there. Reassure him that nothing will leave the house without his explicit permission, though, or he'll probably chase you away.

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My 95 year old mother is a hoarder. As long as she has a path to get around in her house and has access to all the doors and the outside is all cleanTHERE IS NOTHING that can be done!! I have tried!! She won’t get evaluated by a doctor!! She is 95 years old. She hasn’t done it yet. She has undiagnosed bipolar, a hoarder, and is a gambling addict that spent her whole entire savings which was hundreds of thousands of dollars on gambling!! My father couldn’t stop her 20 years ago and I can’t stop her now. Doctors and elder lawyers told me there is nothing I can do. The damn law is on her side. I gave up on the hoarding situation years ago. I’m just trying to get her to bathe and wash her hair!! The last time she did it was in May when I helped her. The time before that was a year ago. Guess what the doctors and elder lawyers told me? There is nothing I can do about it because she is competent and of sound mind. She cooks herself, takes her meds, takes call a bus to grocery store, knows every fun fact known to man. Her memory is impeccable. Her cognitive is off the charts for 95 years old. I finally stopped taking her out for dinner because she won’t bathe. It’s so damn frustrating I could friggin scream!!!!

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I hear you.

The only difference between our moms, my does keep herself clean. I am grateful for that.

It is amazing how attached they are to junk and garbage. My mom decided to stock up for the famine, with items that get bugs. Oy vey, really mom, the bugs ate all the rice a roni (spl?) Are you really going to eat the bugs! She actually said they are protein. She can't figure out why I won't eat at her house.

Sound mind is obviously a very general term.

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Call APS or his town's elder care worker.

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Mindy, I can completely relate to your situation. Here’s my take on the situation. It’s possible he’s a hoarder if he has been doing thus buying and saving “Stuff”all along for years. If he will go, make an apt with his Dr. But make sure you let the Dr know what is going on and has been going on give them details so they understand. They will asses him and let you know what they recommend. They can also advocate for you if you need to go to court to get guardianship. Elders become very possessive of all there “Stuff” and it can be very difficult fir them to get rid if things they feel they need or may need. My dad was the same way. I just started to toss small things. He might ask did you do something while I was gone and I would say how could I. I was grocery shopping for you. I started to clean out items where he really couldn’t tell. Like back rooms, closets going through the mail. So if you can when he’s out with his care taker go over if you can and start slowly. Ill bet most or a lot of his mail comes from organizations asking for donations. I would defiantly toss all that. The other thing that might work would be to say dad why don’t you and I start to go through some of your mail and anything that’s not needed we can toss but if it’s important to you we can put it in a box for later. Then at a later date toss the box. Maybe get some bins that could help some with organization. He may be receptive to that. I found getting mad and yelling “how can you live this way”never helped. If he doesn't have dementia or the start of it I’ll bet he feels just as over whelmed as the place he lives in looks. They get so overwhelmed that they don’t know where to start. Stuff just piles up. My dad had piles and I mean piles of mail all around his chair. I was always worried he would trip. I got a container he could put all the new mail in and when I went over I would ask him if he had gone through the mail in the box. It took sometime to get him in the same page but finally it started to work. The other thing I want to say is he probably feels he doesn’t want to give up control of anything because that means he needs help and and as with all seniors or anyone for that matter they don’t want to admit they need help because to them it’s loosing control of life as they know it. But if all else fails adult protective services may be your last resort. I think debbiesdaz idea is on the right track too. The best to you

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I'm very sorry you are dealing with this. As someone who is a former caregiver and now works in our office coordinating in home service , I wonder if your Dad's caregiver is working for an agency? Most agencies have to keep detailed progress notes recording the services provided including cleaning. If the client refuses cleaning or hygene the care team is alerted and evaluates the client. There are ways a caregiver can respectfully have conversation with a client about the health and safety issues around cleaning a home. I myself have dealt with residents in nursing homes or at home clients who refuse cleaning and are impulsively shopping/ hoarding items. Those suffering with dementia/ Alzheimer's are more likely to resist anyone cleaning a personal space. One other issue may unfortunately be...a lazy caregiver who isn't being creative about cleaning strategies. Examples: caregiver offers to " make a list of the clients belongings to make sure it's all there. " I did this and was able to clean and organize while making the lists for my client. Then I gave the client the little notebook of lists. My client loved having lists of her possessions and even used it for shopping( stopped buying stuff she already owned.) While I cleaned I also found ways to get trash to the dumpster with out being too obvious about it. Maybe your Dad's caregiver just needs more training. It may also just be your Dad's mental health is the real issue. Please contact adult social services. Your dad needs help!

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So call DHS and see if they consider it a safety issue, a hoarding issue, a health issue, etc., and see if they can get him to either get rid of stuff, donate stuff, put him a facility, etc. When you know the cleaning person is coming, get him OUT of the house for the time the cleaning person is there, and have the cleaning person help "move" stuff out. If there is that much of it, he won't miss it until the HUGE space is noticed. Sounds like a hoarding issue to me.

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I’m in agreement that he’s probably a hoarder, and I have no suggestions for that other than what has already been offered by far-wiser Aging Care posters. What caught my attention was the person who comes in for five hours a day!
What is this person doing besides getting paid?

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If one of my staff did not clean a client's home at least to safety standards, there would be an in home evaluation and some serious changes made. Any agency would document the situation and action would be taken!

(4)

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This sounds like a hoarder situation - this is the hill he's going to die on (figuratively speaking). He's maintaining his sense of autonomy?

But there may be a difference between eyesore and danger. If it's "only" an eyesore, there may be nothing you can do about it (unless the mess is spilling out to the yard and it violates a local code).

Different states and municipalities have different rules or ways of determining if a housing situation is dangerous enough for intervention (e.g. declaring a dwelling condemned, or forcibly moving a person out). Maybe a first step is to look into your area's definitions of uninhabitability. If dad's house doesn't fit the definition, then as offensive as you might find it, there may be no way to enforce a change.

It sounds like this has become an entrenched battle of wills over a long period of time. What would happen if you stopped fighting him about it and let him live in his mess? (Just a hypothetical to consider.)

Sometimes letting go of a battle like this is wonderfully liberating for both parties.

Just a thought.

(Obviously, it would also be worth attempting to get a neuro and/or mental evaluation, but that could be a fight in and of itself.)

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A dear friend of mine just recently had to go to court to have her alcoholic father declared unfit to care for himself. She was awarded guardianship...and since she's been dealing with this for 20+ years, she simply hired a junker to come throw everything away. And I mean, everything but his clothes and probably a lot of those. She showed me pics of the house. Beer cans and the cardboard boxes they come in filled the house to the ceiling. Several feral cats using the house as their private litter box. He slept on a stained mattress on the floor by a tiny TV. Food wrappers, etc. I used to love the show "Hoarders' and I can say this house was the worst I had ever seen.

He was so drunk the whole 'clean up time' he wasn't even aware what was going on. It took a few days--she put him in a rehab facility. SO he comes out sober and....MAD. She sold the house and put him up in an apartment, she handles his money, takes him grocery shopping but it's impossible to keep an alcoholic from drinking--she doesn't buy him alcohol, but his buddies do.

She hired a house keeper who must be pretty tough b/c she can keep his 1 bedroom apartment clean(ish). NO CATS!

I realize, that what the driving force behind her getting what her dad needed was $$--really, having a budget that allows for this kind of thing (attorneys, cleaners, rehab) makes it easier. Money sure can smooth the way, can't it?

This sweet woman is only 39. She's been dealing with this mess her whole life. She is grateful for the opportunity to watch her dad slowly kill himself, but not in filth.

Yes, you have the right to live in garbage and total disarray. If everyone in the home feels the same. In many cases it's a terrible health hazard and a fire hazard--but people have the right to live as they choose. Some level of organization has to exist or chaos will reign. Nevertheless---if you want to keep the PCH sweepstakes envelopes for the last 40 years, be my guest. Just not in my house.

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So, I totally disagree with everyone that says this is clearly mental illness or dementia.

Some people are comfortable with a lot of mess and stuff, they quite frankly have better things to do. I used to be OCD about keeping my house spotlessly clean, I was actually a prisoner to the whole neat freak situation. What I realized was that my house owned me and I was sacrificing my wellbeing trying to accomplish perfection. No such thing. When I stopped spending every second worrying about stuff, I actually felt better. I still hate clutter and a mess. But I don't have to oil the baseboards to feel like I vacuumed the house.

My mom is a hoarder, like the kind you see on TV and I was scared that I would be like her, still gives me the shudders.

I actually contacted the authorities about this and I was told that they can live anyway they want, as long as they are not in any danger, hypothetical candles don't even get considered. It must be a real threat, like no outside access, newspapers stored in the oven that is used kind of actual dangers.

So, I have to pick my battles. I don't visit at their house because I am not willing to subject myself to what they are all good with.

Oh, I spent 6 weeks trying to clean their roughly 1000 square foot house. I would sort it out, bag it up and set it out for delivery, she would bring it back in, go through it again and keep 90% of what she said earlier could go. I am talking about worn out cloths, empty jars, ruined or broken items, we never did get through the entire house, we did her bedroom, bathroom and kitchen, yeah, 6 weeks to get to the bottom to be able to clean and the authorities said "Her choice." So, her choice, I have mine.

Best of luck just letting this one go.

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Love your post! Yes, after I retired from the office, I decided that I would do things I had been wanting to do - and that did not include being a slave to bricks and mortar. Actual safety issues are one thing, but maintaining a museum? Better things to do - life is short.

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I can only speak as to what I would do. First I would have him medically assessed as he obviously is a filthy slob and most likely has dementia. Or he just doesn't see the dirt and hoarding. Second, I would make sure that somehow I find a way to get a full Power of Attorney and once I had it, I would take control of all matters that have to do with his paperwork, bills, everything before he does things possibly even worse. Then perhaps the fire department of officials in the town could "pay him a visit". Do all you can initially to fix things and get through to him this is unacceptable. I don't think anything will work, however. If not, then if possible, get him out of the house and bring in a qualified crew of people to clean the mess from top to bottom. Let him rant and rave and carry on - ignore it and tell him it is is OWN FAULT. At least you tried to do the right thing. If he makes it hell for you and you sure don't deserve that treatment, were it me, I would tell him what he did is unacceptable and offensive and since he will not cooperate, he is now on his own. Then be strong, get up, walk away. Let what happens happen. You have done your best and he deserves what he gets. Or, better yet, you could forcibly place him into a facility where he is cared for. You must be strong and do everything you can do to end this. It is up to you - but seek help from the medical people, professionals and an elder care attorney.

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It clearly is a mental health issue. Such deterioration can also indicate dementia. Instead of a 'person' maybe a care person should be hired who also has authority to call in for help. I think your dad needs to be checked. It would be easy to walk with a candle and slip and the entire place is on fire (make sure you have your CO2 and smoke alarms installed and working!).

In Canada, I would call the police and ask that he is taken for 72 hours mental health observation to the hospital. Then you can show pictures to the people. They will tell you, and him, what the best options are, and at this stage he is their liability.

Good luck!

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Agreed...but why would someone walk in with a candle?

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While my house is not as bad as what you describe - I live cluttered and quite frankly, I know where my stuff is and I resent anyone coming in and moving or organizing for me. For years, my half-bath was my personal space and I did not want anyone cleaning it; it doesn't endanger my health and I have felt secure there for the last 30+ years.

That said, I don't have dirty clothes and/or dishes all over the house and I do my laundry, wash the dishes, put out my trash, etc. I'm 67 and have noticed that a lot of people in my generation are just not "neat-freaks" like other generations.

A dirty house will not take away a single day of my life and a clean house will not grant me an extra day of living. I'm not looking to share my space with anyone now that my DH is gone - and if he could make it to almost 97 in my cluttered home, then no one else has the right to tell me how to live.

P.S. You don't say how old your father is.

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Many people use clutter to feel safe. It’s a barricade of sorts, feels like a covering so the person doesn’t let others truly “see” them. Not wanting anyone to be near it or help sort it is another way of saying “go away, I don’t want you here”.

Absence of clutter is not being a neat freak. It’s respect for yourself and your home. Clutter and dirt just says “I don’t care!”. I love and respect my home, husband, pets and myself too much to let us all live in chaotic surroundings.

My house isn’t sterile... sometimes there’s pet hair on the floor, dust on a shelf, sometimes laundry piles up. Even so, if I had unexpected company coming, it would take at most 30 minutes to get the house fresh and nice.

No point in keeping what I don’t need or use or love (sentimental value items). I do not keep old papers or bills, old medicine bottles, old magazines. It’s not hard to do if little steps are done every day.

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You do not mention your dad in your profile so ...
The behavior you describe could be one of a few things.
1. Hoarder. If he has been this way and it was your mom that kept up the house and now you are seeing the hoarding tendencies.
2. This can be a sign of dementia.
You should schedule an appointment with your dads doctor and have a full workup done, including a MME to begin with.

If he does have dementia he can not make a decision for himself as to what is in his best interest. At that point you take him out one day, when the person is scheduled to come and keep him out for the 5 or 6 hours and let this person do what they are paid to do.
If he does not have dementia and he is hoarding this becomes a psychological problem that is just as difficult.

Moving a hoarder to Assisted Living will not change the hoarder they will still hoard.
Moving someone with dementia to AL will help, for a while until they have to move to Memory Care.

A call to APS will force a change, either to clean up or move. The clean up is just the tip of the iceberg if something else is going on.

By the way to you have POA for your dad?
It might be at the point where you have to take over financially so he can't make purchases he dies not need. What else is he spending money on? Are his bills being paid?

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Grandma, I'd like to see a neutral referee examine the house - I've noticed that some people tolerate messiness, even chaos, while to others it almost is a moral issue. Important to know what we are actually talking about.

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He is a exhibiting hoarding behavior, something that's not uncommon in the elderly. Hoarding is usually triggered by a trauma but in your dad's case it might be from dementia. If I were in your situation, I would consult with a counselor who specializes in hoarding to help you get practical guidance. You won't solve it by cleaning it while he's out...this will make him extremely angry and he will just continue to hoard. He may even go to the curb and bring back in what was just taken out, not matter how disgusting it is (I know as I cared for someone with this disorder). You will waste time, money and emotion doing this. It is unsafe, unsanitary, and unfair to his neighbors if his junk starts appearing in his yard. And he is burning through his money buying stuff he doesn't need. You don't want it to get to the point where neighbors start to complain and the city condemns the house. Then you will be in crisis mode and have very few options and a lot of stress. Better to deal with it now. Good luck!

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Try to take him out than have someone to clean the house

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My father...he was a hot mess. He lived in one state and I another, when I would go visit him I would clean his house, he would trash it again. I put my foot down made him hire a house cleaner..oh great! I would pay her every month, she would go to his home, he wouldn't let her in, said it didn't need to be cleaned. When he died it took me 3 weeks to get it cleaned out, then the repairs started and they were major. I stayed in a hotel, no way that I could sleep there!

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Hey DollyMe. Looking back I realize my mom was a hoarder her entire life. She was the oldest of 3 children (5, 3 and 1)when her mother died. Her traumatic life's event. After my parents divorce I took care of the house (9) b/c she had to work. When I married and left home, my younger brother took over. She remarried and my Pop kept the house until he died 16 years ago. Thats when the hoarding consumed her life. For most of the next 10 years she collected and spent her way into chaos. The "stuff" eventually made her house unlivable. It wasn't until I actually saw that TV show Hoarders that I realized what my family was dealing with.
Now she has been diagnosed with Alzheimers and is living with my husband and me. Over the last 1 year, 8 months, I have slowly emptied her house. She doesn't know that her precious "stuff" is gone. Oddly enough she has never once asked to go back to her house to "get something". She has not been inside her house since Jan 2017.
I do not allow her to hoard here. She's tricky. I found I have to take the trash and recycling outside or she will rummage through it.
I also tried housekeepers, etc but she would not allow them in.

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He is a Typical Hoarder Old man Pack Rat at That. As long as so FAR he is in No Great Danger, Nothing much Anyone under the No Fun Sun can do but if something would Later Happen because of a Bigger Mess, Adult Services will then DO THEIR BEST.

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My mother is 95 years old and a hoarder. She lives alone in her house and the house is paid for. She won’t let me pick up the house. It’s been this way since my father died 20 years ago. Cops have been to her house and so have EMTS and nobody has halled her out of there yet.I am told by doctors and elder lawyers that as long as she is competent and of sound mind there is not a damn thing I can do about it!!! Nobody can kick her out of that house or make her clean it up if she doesn’t want to!! The law is on HER side, not mine!!!

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How does a 95 yr old woman prevent you from taking out a bag of trash when you visit? Is she going to tackle you? One thing to try is to stop some of the junk mail from arriving in the first place.

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I am my cousins health care rep and I will tell you her place was a pig pen to say the least. I told her and the nurses after her rehab, if I was going to be her health care rep she had better clean up her act. I had a meeting with the building manager and told her I want her to do inspections every week for awhile. She hired a housekeeper at my request. Well, I guess that is what it took to get her place clean. Her apartment is clean and neat. She has more company visiting her. I go over with my mom and family to check up on her living situation, and we can actually get through the place and sit down. Be firm, and explain you will get outside assistance if necessary. It worked for me. I also spent 8 hours with family throwing out food from a year ago and other food items. Tough love!

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Mindys, I see from your profile that your Mom is living in a nursing home. How long ago was she placed? Did your Dad start messing up the house after your Mom had to be moved? Did Mom keep the house in neat order? Does your Dad visit your Mom?

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You can try calling APS. It's a crapshoot with them. Someone called on my mom, but it was about my brother shouting at her. He got really mad at ME, but I didn't call.

APS will just be the start. If the house is condemnable, it could be condemned and that will leave him homeless--but maybe it would be a little blessing. He will need a lot of help--you may or may not want to be involved.

Moving mother and dad out of their "big house" into the MUCH smaller apartment took us 3 years. Mom cried for 3 solid years, I swear. Losing your possessions against your will is very unhappy for everyone.

Start will APS and maybe have a cog eval done, altho I bet your dad is someone who wouldn't put up with that.

You'll have to get the city involved, you saying "dad, your place is a wreck" is not going to cut it.

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Sometimes something happens that results in an emergency visit...fire dept/paramedics for health reasons, a fall, and then a referral may be made by them related to safety. Hoarding or similar is a huge challenge for everyone.

What to do with a parent who will not let his house be cleaned up?

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